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Poor Communication = Poor Banking Customer Experience: Part II

Bankcustomers

In Part I of my article on communication breakdowns, I focused on

Use Familiar Language:  avoiding jargon that can be confusing or may seem misleading
Create a Conversation: ask questions and interact instead of lecturing the customer
Show You Care:  showing Empathy and interest to build trust and value

In addition to these verbal interaction points, there are more opportunities to successfully create a wonderful Customer/ Member Experiences.

More Than Words

While the words we choose are important, we can’t forget about nonverbal aspects of communication, especially in a branch setting. Face-to-face interactions bring the added challenge of body language, which can drastically alter the meaning of what we say. Are your representatives sending the right signals? These may include:

• Greeting customers as they enter

• Making eye contact during conversations

• Using positive facial expressions

• Avoiding negative gestures: sighs, yawns, shrugs

Lobbies and offices are communicating with customers too. Does your waiting area welcome customers, or does it order them to line up? Do tellers call out “next,” or offer a personal greeting? Can customers smell the burnt microwave popcorn in the break room?

Beware Mixed Messages

Lastly, consider how your organizational language compares with your interpersonal language. What will customers think if your brochures describe product features that aren’t on your website? Or if a representative answers a customer’s question with, “I don’t know anything about that. We’re the last to know.” (Yes, one actually said that to me). Inconsistent communication is as bad as no communication. All channels need to deliver the same messages. For example:

• Use clear, easy-to-understand content (no jargon) for website, email and customer communications

• Avoid “copy and paste” emails that do not address a customer’s specific question

• Maintain a knowledge base for employees that is updated regularly

Lead By Example

We must also ensure that our communication style and word choices are the same ones we want employees to emulate. It’s all part of getting everyone in your institution to communicate well. The challenge is a big one. But when customers get the right messages, their responses will be well worth it.

This post originally appeared in my article for Deluxe Knowledge Quarterly publication December 2012.

Creating A Great Experience With “Non-Customers”

Contact Form

Contact (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Based on some of the recent call experiences that friends have shared with me, it’s apparent that many companies aren’t spending training time on teaching ways for their agents to gracefully bow out of a call to a wrong contact or when the contact they reach says they aren’t right for the product due to (insert here an objection that can’t be overcome).

These fall into the category of “Prospect Experience” or “Possible Future Customer Experience”.

Here’s a recent example:

Agent using nice Smile and Tone: “Hi is this _____? This is ___ from ____ Insurance providers. We provide Health Insurance benefits for small businesses and individuals.”

Person called responds in friendly tone: “Hi (Agent’s name)…I’m only a one person business and I’m already covered by my spouse’s insurance policy through work so I’m not a good prospect for your company.”

Agent sounding irritated: “well OK… (click)”

This call was reminiscent of the bad telemarketing calls made from “boiler room” type operations years ago (and unfortunately still some in operation today) that trained agents to have a “hit and run” philosophy: 

Call as many people as you can as fast as you can and if they are the wrong party or an insurmountable objection is given,  just hang up on them and dial again.

(NOTE: Do not try this in your center! :-) )

Given the way that the Agent opened the conversation and identified herself, it was evident that she understood how to create a nice first impression.  Perhaps she received training and coaching on this or maybe it is her natural style of communication when greeting someone.

Once the Agent experienced rejection, her tone changed completely.  If there was to be no lead or sale made, the Agent was finished with you and saw no need to end the call positively.  Her focus was clearly on the here and now immediate results regardless of the impression she left with that prospect.  And as we know, today our prospects and customers won’t tell only ten people about the bad experience they had with our agent, they will broadcast it on Social Media to hundreds, even thousands of people.

Another example of poor “non-customer” experience is when an Agent calls and the person they are trying to contact isn’t available. It usually goes something like this:

Agent: “Hi..Is Mr. (name) available.  This is (Agent name) from (company)?”

Person answering phone: “No he isn’t. Can I take a message?”

Agent using flat tone: “I’ll call back” (hang up click)

It adds little time to the calls to use  polite phrases such as “Thank you but I’ll just call him/her back later. Is there a good time to reach him/her?”

If your training program doesn’t include discussion and role-play related to creating a great “Prospect Experience” with those who don’t buy or aren’t the right contact, I hope you’ll start covering this during training and coaching these skills too.  We should be creating a positive experience, showing appreciation to and interest in every person we are in contact with.

A wonderful mentor who coached with me many years ago always said and rightly so …”Today’s no may be tomorrow’s yes”!

Being Thankful For Our Customers

As we plan for our Thanksgiving Day celebrations here in the United States,  it is a time for all of us to remember and be appreciative for what we have…family, friends, and other blessings we have received.  It should also be a time for us to be thankful for our customers.

Sometimes when I’m working with service agents and their leaders, I hear them complain about their customers.

“Why do they call for something so stupid?”

“That last guy had the TV blaring and I could barely hear him!”

“She was really upset.  It’s not my fault she didn’t get the package in time”.

We all have moments when we are thinking or saying negatives about a difficult customer. Anyone who says they haven’t isn’t telling the truth.  What is important is whether you allow these negatives to become a part of your daily approach to customers or remind yourself of your role, i.e. why we work in service.

How many of these calls are coming in daily?…”I don’t have a problem or complaint.  I just called to tell you how much I love your products and your service.”  If you have more of these than customers needing assistance or having complaints, we need to talk about how you are doing it :-)

Let’s face it…our job is dealing with customers who are not always nice, polite, reasonable or happy.  But that is the nature of our job and without our customers, even the ones who make us take that deep breath and count to ten, we don’t have a job.

Our goal is to provide the best customer experience.  Our work only happens if we have customers.  If we work in customer service, we need to have appreciation for not only for the customers we love to work with, but also for the customers who are challenging and give us the chance to shine and do our best.

Let’s be thankful and count our blessings.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Driving Employees from Engaged to Embalmed

Will someone please save these Agents?

Most companies are focused on employee engagement and understand the benefits for retention, customer experience and the bottom line.

Some just “talk the talk and don’t walk the walk”.

A few don’t even crawl.

The latter would apply to the senior management responsible for an insurance contact center team I’m writing about today.  Incidentally, this is not one of my clients but maybe they should be.

A little background on the employees:  They are a small satellite center a few hours away from the headquarters where a large 100 seat center is located.  The contact center agents handle customer service calls and walk-ins needing help.  They appeared to have a good system of shared work loads and they worked well together. They even spent a few months “self-managing” since their local Supervisor retired and was not immediately replaced.

Senior management finally posted the open Supervisor position.  Two of the eight employees at the small center were interested in the promotion and so interviewed and tested.  One candidate handled a lot of special projects for the center; the other was always asked to participate in new technology development and testing of systems and procedures. Both had excellent work histories and quality of service.  Both had letters of praise from customers.

Both were offered the Supervisor’s job and declined.

Why would these long time, loyal employees turn down this great opportunity to become leaders with the company?  Unbelievable as it may seem, they were offered lower salaries for this promotion than what they were earning as Agents.  When each questioned the amount, Human Resources said that the VP had said that was all to be offered. They decided to remain as Agents instead of taking on more responsibility for considerably less money.

Then, the supervisor replacement took an interesting and insulting twist.  They hired someone from the outside with no customer service or contact center experience.  He had never processed an insurance claim or worked with the industry either.  And more fun…those two agents were asked to train him.

There are some more great moments in Employee Engagement with this same team:

Communication:

  • An Agent relocated from headquarters to join the satellite team.  The first day, the other Agents saw her leave at 4pm. She told them “We always leave at 4pm at headquarters”.  The satellite team always worked until 4:30pm and never knew that the other contact center agents in the large 100 seat center left that early. No explanation was given.

Knowledge base errors:

  • Agents are receiving “errors” from quality control despite showing the quality people (in writing) that the knowledge base has two differing answers for the same procedure. Management ignores and the errors continue on their performance reports.

Performance feedback (NOT coaching!):

  • 98.8 accuracy performance stats (99% accuracy is goal) are emailed to an agent by headquarters manager who asks, “Why are you making all these mistakes?”  (note to manager: SEE KNOWLEDGE BASE ERRORS ABOVE FOR ANSWER.)

Rewards and recognition:

  • Agents receive letters from customers with compliments for service but management never acknowledges or rewards.
  • Agent sent to internal conference with supervisors from other national locations.  He is the only agent attending because his former supervisor was afraid of technology and didn’t like to travel. His suggestions end up saving company time and increase effectiveness.  He never is told thank you or given an incentive for his cost saving and efficiency suggestions that worked.

Recently, the president of this same company  sent out an eloquently written letter to all employees saying how they must all “focus on the customer”.

I heard the satellite team laughed when they read it.  They said he never mentioned any appreciation for what they or the other agents were already doing for customers.  The two who rejected the poorly offered promotion have expressed an interest in looking for new jobs.  I hope they find something worthy of their great skills and work ethic.

Employees don’t need the president to tell them to focus on customers.  What they need is for the president to say, “We are focused on YOU, so in turn, you can provide the best customer experience”.  And then he needs to take action and do what he says.

Not holding my breath on that one…are you?

Turning “Whining” Into Winning

“…that won’t work…”

I’m sure you’ve had one of these employees work for you at one time or another.  I certainly have.  They seem to love to complain. Or whine about things.  Others just throw their hands up in frustration and say nothing to you….directly that is.

Our contact centers are communities so the comments, complaints and rumors spread like wildfire. Before you know it, others pick up the negatives and are repeating them.

At one center I heard the Supervisor complain:  “I’ve told her about this (skill) multiple times but she still does it”.  The Quality Manager replied: “Yes, she doesn’t listen”.  Both shook their heads and went about their business.

At another center I heard an Agent say:  “This (process) is ridiculous”.  I asked, “Have you discussed with your Supervisor?”  The Agent laughed and replied,  “Why bother…no one listens”.

When we hear these type of comments directly or through the center grapevine, we need to determine if what is being said is justified, just whining or just having a bad day.

In both examples, the employees used the word “listen”.  Is it really about listening or is there more involved?

Questions are conversation controllers and conversation openers.  They help us to clarify comments made so we don’t assume what we are hearing is the complete information needed.  We use questions during our problem solving with customers but forget at times how effective they are during our conversations with our employees too.

In the Supervisor situation above we should ask

  • Why do you think Mary isn’t improving? Skill lacking or attitude?
  • What does Mary say about these skills?
  • Does Mary seem interested in improving?  What has she said or done to indicate this?
  • What have you done to help her?
  • What do you recommend doing now?
  • Is Mary in the right job here?
  • Have you discussed with the Quality team?  What do they think?

When we gather this type of information, we can determine whether the Supervisor has approached the issue clearly and logically or whether he or she is responding emotionally out of frustration.

For the Agent complaining about a process, some helpful questions would be

  • Why do you think the process is a problem?
  • What can be done differently?
  • Is this a problem for our team internally or for our customers or both?
  • If we made changes as you suggest, how would this affect the customers, your team, our business goals?

Of course, questions aren’t the complete solution.

If our employees are giving us useful feedback and suggestions from our probing questions, we must demonstrate interest and take action whenever possible to show support for their suggestions. If we are unable to implement or change something, we need to share that and the reasons why.

In the Supervisor example, if they are doing all the right things to coach and Mary is unwilling or unable to improve, we need to support the Supervisor if moving the agent to disciplinary action would be best.  Our actions will certainly speak louder than words.

In the case of the Agent, some are so frustrated that their suggestions aren’t acted upon or given feedback why they may not be implemented, that their positive suggestions now turn into whining and complaining mode.

Creating an open dialog with our agents and front-line leaders where feedback is welcome, utilized when possible or told why if not implemented, is key to turning the complaints and whining into productive wins for our customers, our business and the engagement of our agents and leaders.

So You Want To Become a Customer Service Leader?

Much has been written about what Contact Center and Customer Service Leadership should do to motivate, mentor and be successful with their teams. But what should an Agent or Customer Service Rep do to be successful in their quest for promotion?

1. Be willing to volunteer for projects

When there are opportunities offered and you make excuses or avoid them altogether, you send a clear signal about your initiative (or lack of it). Ask if there is anything you CAN help with. Even if there isn’t anything extra to do, your Manager will take note of your willingness to help.

2. Mentor others by being positive and encouraging

Are you the Agent the new hires like to sit with because you are knowledgeable and motivate them? Or, are you the Agent the new hires avoid sitting near because you complain about the customers or your work? Be welcoming and motivating and help your teammates succeed.

3. Stay out of the internal conflicts on your team and gossip mill

When people work together in large groups under high pressure as we have when the calls are coming in back to back, there are some who will take out their frustrations on co-workers or talk badly about management. Stay clear of these folks or you may find yourself accused of “stirring the pot” too.

4. Demonstrate the Customer Experience focus needed and Learn more about the Business

Ask for ways to improve your service skills and customer interactions. Don’t just wait for feedback and coaching. Show that you are open and willing to take feedback. Review the company goals, mission and educate yourself on how the business operates.

5. Suggest ways to help the business be successful and increase customer satisfaction

This is not complaining. This is, “I see an opportunity for ________ and I have a suggestion which will help by ______”. Don’t bring complaints. Bring solutions and ideas. When you do have suggestions, make them in a positive, factual manner, not using emotional talk.

6. Show up for work!

Enough said :-)

7. Express your interest in moving into Leadership

Ask your Supervisor to share ways you can reach your goal via classes, book recommendations, advice on skills needed. Improving your skills in Time Management, Coaching, Verbal and Written Communication, Dealing with Difficult People, How to Motivate, Team Building and How to create a great Customer Experience will help you get a jump start on what you’ll use in Leadership.

8. Self Honesty: Why do you want the promotion?

Be honest with yourself. Is it because of the new challenge and opportunity to grow or just the money you feel you “deserve” after working there for a while? There is a big difference between being a co-worker with your Agent friends and overseeing their schedules, quality issues and perhaps delivering “bad news” to them as a Supervisor. Do you feel you have what it takes to be successful?

…If you have some more ideas to help Agents develop the skills needed to join Leadership, I hope you’ll share them here.

A Special Thank you to Impact Learning for first publishing this article in May 2012

Book Review: RoadMap to Revenue

Click to visit Kristin’s website

I just finished reading Kristin Zhivago’s book, “Roadmap to Revenue: How to Sell The Way Your Customers Want to Buy.”  Kristin is a well-known “Revenue Coach.” The premise of her book is that we need to be Customer-Centric instead of Company-Centered.

How shocking!  Sell to Customers the way they want, instead of forcing company-focused marketing, sales, processes and services on them whether they like them or not?

And the best part is that Kristin doesn’t talk pie-in-the-sky theory about this.  She shares a system that she says, “uses proven methods that have worked” regardless of the product or service sold or who the buyer is.

In the beginning pages of the book, she lists 21 “Barriers to the Sale” that companies create which make it difficult for customers to buy. She adds that these are just a FEW examples.  Scary reading indeed!  As I read her list I found myself nodding in affirmation.  I’ve experienced most of these either as a customer or as a consultant observing how some companies operate.

Here are just two of the sales barriers:

  • Failing to include needed and helpful information on product packaging and in product documentation (I had to call, wait in queue and then finally get the information)
  • Using the latest technology without regard to how it impacts customers (loved the one that disconnected me 2 times and the Agent when reached said, “Yes, it’s been doing that all week”)

She also discusses a common mistake the C-Suite team often makes: imitating the competition (What is Joe doing? What kind of system did XYZ competitor buy, and so on), instead of creating their own marketing and service culture based on what their own Customers love and how they want to buy from them.

Once she’s laid out what is happening or what could be happening that’s failing, Kristin gives us three key steps to get on the right track:

1. Discover: Start to approach things from your Customer’s point of view.  Get feedback on everything they experience, perceive and even their thoughts on your competition. Kristin provides specific instructions on how to get this information quickly – as in, weeks – using a simple but proven method.

2. Debate: Brainstorming rules here.  What do your customers want, how do they want it, decide what you will promise to your customers and how will people, processes, policies, products etc. keep these promises.  She says the latter is your “brand” (not to be confused with “branding”).

3. Deploy: Take Action.

Many companies are great at Debate.  In fact, they will debate and then debate the debate (note: please see my Blog post on “Meetings”). Where they fail in my experience, in addition to effective Discovery, is the Action part. Lots of data collected.  Lots of talking. Not so much walking.  And so the same things they discuss implementing in January are still being discussed in November or even the next year.

Kristin goes into great detail on all of these stages, giving you examples that you can follow in theory, but more important, in practicality.  She was spot on with this observation:

“The (Marketing and Selling) Channels you decide to use should be guided by two reliable sources:  your Customers’ buying process and testing.”

 YAY!  Someone not afraid to say, maybe you don’t need the latest and greatest Marketing or Sales invention, media, etc. unless your Customers (or Prospects) want to find you, buy from you, learn about you using them.  Don’t set some marketing or sales plan in motion because YOU like it or you think you have to have it to keep up with everyone else.

Last but not least, Kristin discusses how to keep all this going including dealing with internal roadblocks that may continue to pop up.

I loved Kristin’s no-nonsense tough talk about what needs to be done to be successful. She pulls no punches and is clear about the roles (or whining of various departments) that you may encounter as you make the Customer-Centric changes needed, and how to deal with them.

Do you have “Welcomers”?

I was delighted to read Richard Shapiro’s new book entitled, The Welcomers Edge.  I’ve corresponded with Richard on Twitter and LinkedIn and knew of his devotion to our Customer Experience industry.

One of the simplest but most important points Richard makes (and yet many businesses miss) is that Customers are people too.  They crave personal touches and recognition.  They want to feel important and valued.  Too often, this is sacrificed in the need to push employees to strive for a “get it and go” service approach.

Richard outlines the ways to success in building loyalty and begins by describing the types of employees businesses have.  Who hasn’t met these people as Richard describes them?  I sure have!

  • The Welcomer – “Makes you feel important, appreciated and valued as a customer and as a person.”
  • The Robot - “They primarily see each interaction as a task to complete…meeting the basic needs of the customer.”
  • The Indifferent – “They simply ignore the customer…they see the customer as an obstacle to their own agenda.”
  • The Hostile – This quote says it all: “Why is this person employed in this job?”  He adds, “..rude, nasty person..” —- Been there and experienced that unfortunately!

Richard goes on to describe scenarios of missed opportunities and asks the big question, “Why do business owners fail to see the connection …(between) having ‘non-welcomers’ in their business and not generating enough repeat business to stay in business over the long haul?”

As you read Richard’s book, you’ll think as I did I’m sure….it’s the things that businesses think are “simple” that are often missed or considered wasting time on the job, much like the”Welcomer’s” time spent connecting with the customers.

The best technology or latest marketing fad isn’t going to make up for the way your employees, and you as a business owner, make your customers feel during each and every interaction.

Well done, Richard!

Coaching the Coach

Much of our focus with our Contact Center and Customer Service teams is on the performance and quality of our Agents.  We set goals, coach with them, monitor their customer interactions and reward for improvements or goals reached.

So how are we coaching our Supervisors?

Coaching for many of them is simply training, which often takes the  route of “canned” programs offered by Employee Development people who may never worked in a Contact Center and use modules which focus on skills used by every other department in the company such as Disciplinary Documentation or Dealing with Difficult People. Important skills to learn but missing many of the specific Contact Center skills needed.

Some Supervisors are sent to conferences or trainings offsite which offer presentations related to Customer Service or Contact Centers.  They learn a myriad of new ideas and are excited about what they’ve learned…for a week maybe…and then everyone goes back to business as usual for a variety of reasons (but frequently due to lack of follow-up by the Manager).

As often happens with Agent coaching, Managers will tell or give feedback but not interactively coach with their front line leaders. Meetings are held with the leadership team as a group to share information or discuss issues. Some Managers tell me that they “save time” by having these group meetings and don’t often have one-to-one Supervisor coaching times.

While there certainly is value in group sharing of issues and brainstorming, it doesn’t replace the opportunity for us to interact with and coach our front line leaders as individuals.

What are some ways we can coach our Coaches?

  • Monitor calls together.  What is their game plan for improving skills of the Agents on their team?  What do they recommend?
  • Observe them while they are coaching with an Agent. Coach with them privately afterwards discussing what they did well, find out why they coached things are certain way, suggest ways to improve coaching
  • Conduct a coaching session while they observe you and discuss skills afterwards.  Some learn by observing rather than reading about “how to” or listening to you or speakers discuss.
  • Ask instead of telling:   ask them what they think should be done to improve metrics, turn-over, skills, Customer Experience
  • Set goals and follow-up date to meet with them again to check progress made
  • Hold them accountable to meet deadlines and provide you with feedback on their coaching. They may not always be able to get coaching results with the “unable” or “unwilling” but you should set the expectation that they follow good coaching processes and provide you with reasons and data if coaching needs to become disciplinary action instead.
Many of the coaching skills and activities we use with Agents to help them improve can be adapted for our coaching with our Supervisors.

My Guest Blogger, Lee Silverstein shares: 5 Signs Your Frontline Manager Is Drowning

I enjoy posts written by my consulting friends and plan to share some of them with my readers from time to time.  Today’s post is about some warning signs that may indicate you may have the wrong person for your leadership role.  The author is Lee Silverstein, Founder and Executive Job Coach at Tampa Bay Job Coach.

Lee Silverstein has 29 years experience in leadership and organizational development, training, interviewing and hiring.  He coaches clients on how to leverage the vast array of social media platforms to help them be discovered by recruiters and hiring managers.  Lee also advises clients on building an effective resume, how to network effectively and successful interview skills.  He can be reached via his website: Tampa Bay Job Coach

5 Signs Your Frontline Manager Is Drowning

by Lee Silverstein, Tampa Bay Job Coach

I remember back when I was in the retail business and I had just been promoted to “Store Manager”. I knew I had lots to learn and made it a point to get to the store early each morning. Every morning I arrived at work, Steve (not his real name) would already be there; sleeves rolled up, tie undone and rings of perspiration under his arms. “Good morning boss” he would always utter with a smile. “Did he sleep here?” I would often wonder to myself. Being in the retail business, I put in my share of hours, but most of the time Steve was there when I arrived in the morning and when I left in the evening. It was not unusual for Steve to show up on his day off too. While I admired Steve’s attitude and hard work, he was drowning. The signs were everywhere.

Warning Sign #1 - The Manager Lacks Delegation Skills.

It was clear from Steve’s behavior that he subscribed to the adage “if you want something done right, do it yourself”, but like the saying goes “the harder he worked, the behinder he got.” Either no one had trained Steve on the art of delegation and follow-up or he didn’t retain what he was taught. While Steve worked, his employees stood around, arms crossed, discussing last night’s episode of The X Factor.

Warning Sign #2 - The Manager Hasn’t Empowered Their Team To Make Decisions.

Walking through the store the most common sound I heard, next to the ringing of registers, was “Steve Smith, please call extension 1234.” Every 30, minutes it seemed, one of Steve’s associates would page him with a question or to handle a problem. Steve had not empowered his associates to make any decisions for themselves. Even the most minor issue required him to intervene. This was also the reason why Steve was late for most meetings.

Warning Sign #3 - There Is High Associate Turnover, Particularly With New-Hires, In The Manager’s Area of Responsibility.

With the exception of 2 “long-timers” there was practically a revolving associate door on Steve’s department. As soon as an associate was hired, another would leave. New associates quickly became frustrated over the lack of training and direction from their manager.

Warning Sign #4 - There is 1 or 2 “Veteran” Associates That Are Very Loyal to the Manager.

You’re probably wondering why this is a problem. It’s been my experience that managers like Steve rely on 1 or 2 long-tenured associates to cover their…..rear. In exchange they get preferential treatment from their manager (like prime schedules) which creates resentment from the new associates (refer back to Warning Sign #3).

Warning Sign #5 - Associates Are Constantly Going Over Their Manager’s Head To Resolve Minor Issues.

It was an almost daily occurrence. One of Steve’s employees would track down the assistant store manager to complain that Steve forgot to input their vacation request or changed their schedule without telling them. The result? Refer back to #3…again.

So how did Steve wind up in a leadership role in the first place? I found out that Steve was a top salesperson at another location. Apparently this resulted in his promotion to front line manager.

In her blog post I’m a Supervisor, Jim, Not a LeaderMelissa Kovacevic states:

Unless a Supervisor was chosen for their Leadership potential, the ability to Inspire, Motivate and Coach in addition to their Service/good employee skills, they will often focus on what they have done well in their (previous) role……All the Supervisory classes and all the mentoring in the world will still result in a mediocre to poor Supervisor for your team if you didn’t promote someone with the “right stuff”.

Sadly, this describes Steve to a “T”. After many coaching sessions with Steve it was apparent that Steve did not have the “right stuff” and the time came for me to tell him this directly. I owed it to Steve to be (brutally) honest with him. I’ve always believed that there is a place where everyone can be successful. The longer you allow them to struggle in a position where that won’t happen, the longer you’re keeping them from finding that success. This is how I “rescued” Steve from drowning.

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